advantage, twice, he used it, against the president, on energy policy, and he used it against him on education policy. but, during the section on entitlements, he didn't necessarily seem to be at his strongest. but... certainly much stronger than the president. >> chris: i want to ask you about a moment you didn't bring up, that has gotten a lot of attention, let's take a look at this one. >> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs and stop other things. i like pbs and i love big bird and i like you, too but i will not keep spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> chris: now was that smart, as a way to show that he is serious about cutting spending or always a mistake to take on big bird? >> well, you know, big bird is pretty popular but, you know, maybe the president would say big bird didn't build his own nest, i don't know. but, you know, i think that it is -- you know, it probably, you know, maybe not going after big bird, but, certainly, pbs, and, public broadcasting is popular in terms of taking them on in the spending, you know, on the spending